Shefaly (69)
Easily Amused (61)
Roshni (50)
Mallika (27)
Kislay Chandra (23)
gauri (22)
Gori Girl (22)
Dinesh (21)
Joanne (19)How much money do you need to save before you move to India ?
The most frequently asked question that this blog’s contact form gets isn’t “Are you really sure Neo isn’t single?”. No – that distinction goes to “How much money should I save up before returning to India” ?
(While on the topic of being single, here’s a good rule for married men to follow in pubs: When asked by a girl if you’re married, the first word out of your mouth should be some emphatic synonym of “Yes”. As Neo’s friend learned last Sunday during the IPL finals, “Well, .. (silly grin)” is not a synonym of “Yes”. Maybe a really assertive “Well!” could sort of approach a “Yes”, but it’s rather hard to make that case while simultaneously dodging several expertly aimed glasses of cold water from your wife.)
Now that we’ve closed that bracket, back to the question of “how much money..”, here’s the answer: you’re asking the wrong question!
Here’s why:
1. If you’re moving to India, it should be to make money, and to learn
Thinking of India as a quiet place to retire after working abroad is as silly (and obsolete) as the 100-pound TV in Neo’s parents’ house (you know, the kind that sucks so much power, the lights dim momentarily when you turn it on).
Just because everyone is saying it doesn’t make it false. India is becoming the young and upwardly mobile country that you’ve always wanted. So if your “move to India” plan does not have a jargon-free section titled “My personal plan to grow intellectually, professionally and financially by taking advantage of India’s growth” in at least Helvetica (and not Arial) 14 font size, you don’t have a plan! Go back and write a plan!
Your plan will give you comfort when you read it in candle-light at 3am when there is no power, and (like the Pakistani government) you’ve conceded large ‘swat’hes of your body to the invading mosquitoes.
(Actually mosquitoes are not an issue, since everyone has a UPS and “Good Knight” – but still, if Neo can scare away a few potential returnees, he has done his patriotic bit in controlling inflation in India, speaking of which, …)
2. Yes, The Rupee could get even stronger
The fact that the Reserve Bank of India keeps the rupee artificially low (to promote exports) is probably the worst kept secret in India. But in the long run, 1) we are all dead and 2) more importantly a stronger rupee is as inevitable (though not as imminent) as Deepak Chopra’s next meaningless Twit.
If the rupee appreciates, the money you have earned in India (see point 1) will be worth much more in absolute terms, and in terms of purchasing power. (It’s not like you’ve failed to notice Tim Geithner’s unsubtle tossing around (two) dollar bills at banks faster than a desi guy at his last strip dance before getting married).
But there are things in life more important than money, and so ..
3. What’s your time worth ?
For Neo, moving to India was like cleaning his keyboard for the first time: he was amazed at the sheer volume of gunk that was cleaned out from his life. Neo’s household saves 40 hours a week due to all the cooking, cleaning and driving that’s now been outsourced. Also saved are the 911 calls, most famously because Mrs. Neo once decided to oven-heat a pizza in the original cardboard box (in her defense, she was on the phone with Sneha).
This time is worthless if all you’ll do with it is argue even more with your spouse or watch the Big Bang Theory (highly recommended btw). But if you can use it to start a part-time business, teach your kids, or even just to exercise regularly, this time is worth real money. Surely that deserves to be a column in your Excel spreadsheet (but seriously, you should support open source and move to OpenOffice).
4. Finally, the real question is, how much money do you need to move to Ethiopia ?
Neo is all for keeping his kids on their toes by exposing them to new environments – but moving them to India just when they’ve finally figured out how to answer “do you speak Indian at home?”, or “do you speak Hindu?” seems a tad unfair.
So do consider the fact that by the time your slow-train to “enough money” gets to its destination, your kids might have as difficult a time adjusting to India as you would have in adjusting to rural Ethiopia. By then, your net worth in Indian Rupees is as meaningless as that in Ethiopian Birrs, since you’re not going to move to either of those places!
Conclusion
If you are still reading, perhaps you don’t have enough to live the life of a sheikh in India (of course, even sheikhs are suffering and need to be bailed out with your tax dollars).
So if you are still thinking of moving to India and, like a true Internet citizen, you’ve already forgotten what you read 10 sentences ago, here’s the plan in summary:
- Think of your current savings only as an initial safety net
- Figure out how to make money in India before you move
- Invest it according to the experts on CNBC wisely keeping an eye on the long-term dollar-rupee rate
- Start thinking in terms of purchasing power rather than dollar amounts, and
- Work towards converting your extra time in India into money and meaning.
And do get a move on. As Neo loves to say, “if you can’t decide, decide quickly”.
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Category: Dilemma, Investing, Return to India | Tags: Asia, Deepak Chopra, Economic, India 47 comments »
May 29th, 2009 at 10:17 am
It’s easy to say “We’re all dead” in the long run when you have cooking, cleaning and driving that’s now been outsourced, and additionally, Mrs. Neo. For those of us in the Western world, we are still toiling away, cleaning and cutting mangoes with our own knives, driving ourselves to work, and generally not being able to partake in any below-minimum wage house help. Damn you, U.S. legal system. Will you please ship some help over here to the U.S. of A at artificially lowered export prices?
What was my point in this comment? I never really have one. I just come to complain that we have labor laws that don’t permit most Americans to choose time with their loved ones AND have someone bake garlic naan for them at the same time. That’s all.
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May 29th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Well we can’t have a post (no matter what it talks about ) that does not include a line or 2 about women and Mr. Neo isn’t it?
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May 29th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Hi – sorry but is that an observation, a criticism or a request ?
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May 29th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Very good post BTW, should have said that before.
Meant to say Mrs. Neo in my original comment. There is no chance you will be asked //Are you really sure Neo isn’t single?// when Mrs. Neo and also other women are mentioned in most of the post (sneha, in gym etc..) It is just an observation. I can’t stop LOL when I read them.
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May 29th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
//Surely that deserves to be a column in your Excel spreadsheet//
Blasphemy!
//(but seriously, you should support open source and move to OpenOffice).//
Cover-up
I should’ve come here first. Another r2i site I visited had a whole list of 25 things! Well, maybe a couple less, but those many anyway!
g
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May 29th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
DId you know ? That according to the Birthday Paradox, in any randomly chosen group of 23 people, there is more than a 50% probability that 2 people share the same birthday.
The point is – things that might not seem so likely intuitively are actually very likely on deeper analysis.
How is that relevant to this post ? Stay tuned.
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May 30th, 2009 at 5:21 am
Big Fan of your Blog (Discovered it recently)
I am probably eight standard deviations away from the mean when compared to a ‘typical ‘ returnee-to-India profile. After over 13 years in the US, refusing to grow up, racking up useless graduate degrees and pointless post-doctoral pursuits, I moved back to India last year with effectively zero net personal net worth. Had barely enough money to buy a one way ticket back home and ship some of the useless junk back home. Even my mom was astounded at my lackadaisical attitude towards money, savings and growing up (I know… It is a recurring theme) . But what I did manage to get before I moved back to India was a job that paid me a decent wage, with good long term growth prospects.
You are absolutely right in saying that what matters most is figuring out how to make money in India and not rest on your dollaurels.
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May 30th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Welcome and thanks for sharing! How has the experience been thus far ?
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June 1st, 2009 at 11:37 am
@Bob Loblaw
You must be my long lost twin? Were you found at a village fair wondering in tatters clutching a half eaten mango? Is there a mole on your left arse cheek?
I ask because I too have managed to .. remain “dollaurel” less after over a decade in the US. I don’t know of anyone else who’s equaled my feat.. ergo you must be my long lost twin.
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February 16th, 2010 at 12:32 am
I must also claim that you are my ‘kumbh ka mela’ long-lost sibling! Same boat… and trying to land a good job to r2i. Definitely, the growth prospects there are awesome compared to those in the U.S.
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May 30th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Assessing the worth of one’s life thus far and one’s promise in life in the future in terms of “savings” in a bank account is a signature Indian characteristic. I don’t want to leave my hard-earned money to anyone – most people I know can look after themselves, theirs and their needs – so if theoretically I drop dead tomorrow, I would be happy to have spent it on all the books I wanted to read, places I wanted to visit and restaurants I wanted to eat in. Anywhere I live, voluntarily, I am confident I can earn my keep.
It could be touching to see how many are so keen on the price tag of everything but know the value of sweet FA that life has to offer. But mostly, it is tragic. Glad you aren’t one of those and no, I wasn’t reading the post for any ‘advice’ but just that I was curious to finish the well-written post
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May 30th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
I hear you – but in defense of the Indian (and Chinese) people, their obsession with “bank balance” is actually a remnant and a result of a history of poverty, starvation and the complete lack of a social and safety net.
Having said that, are people taking it too far in India? Absolutely and without any sense to proportion or reality.
Finally, the money we earn (esp through our own entrepreneurial pursuits) is really more than just money, right ?
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May 30th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Hey Neo, Love reading your blog, specially your humorous takes on life. Love the fact that you have a clear-eyed view of life in India and the US. However am puzzled by your statement “Neo’s household saves 40 hours a week due to all the cooking, cleaning and driving “. I outsource all my cooking(pick up food from my local Gujarati lady) or eat out, use the dishwasher, have a cleaning service come in every week(with me vacumming maybe couple of times a week and wiping down the bathroom after use), husband works from home and my workplace is 10 mins drive away, most of the grocery/restaurants/etc are within a 30-45 minute radius – all this doesnt take 40 hrs every week, more like 30 mins a day tops! In contrast when i lived in bangalore a 15 km drive to work took me one and a half hours because of the traffic, I had a maid and a cook but they drove me mad with all their wild schedulings(somedays they would be early/late/not turn up/leave work undone/gossip abt the neighbors/fish for gossip in my home to pass on to the neighbors etc!) – had to leave for work at 8am and get back home by 7pm if i was lucky and 9 pm if i was unlucky(IT industry but a marketer not a techie) leaving me with no time during the week but some time in the weeends. I was lucky my mom-in-law was staying with me and handling the house otherwise the house would be a shamble(also the maid n the cook would try to set off mom-in-law/daughter-in-law wars by carrying tales however that was unsuccessful as my in-laws are very nice, intelligent people – this left the help very grumpy as they didnt get to watch some drama for free LOL)! Here I get back from work between 5pm and 6pm(nearly unheard of in IT India) have the evening for relaxing and might again log later in the night to check mails/do some work.This is not to start off a war with you abt US vs India, but having lived in both countries was puzzled by your statement!
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May 30th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Hi Annie!
Thanks for your comment – it adds so much value to everyone who reads this blog!
Of course it’s possible to lead a simplified and relaxed life in the US! In fact, the lifestyle you describe sounds almost like ours in the US (even down to the Gujarati cook, although we sort of got tired of her repetitive tastes and her use of poor-quality, low-cost ingredients – in hindsight we can’t believe we ate it for so many years – can you tell we’re totally spoilt now ?).
The 40 hour observation was based on the amount of help we’re getting now, for our lifestyle in India – (3 hours for cooking 3 full meals a day, 2 hours for cleaning, laundry, ironing, grocery shopping, etc. and 1 hour for driving (dropping/picking 2 people to work, and our son to school), which is 6 hours a day, or approx 40 hours a week (yes they work on weekends too). I actually know people who use maids even longer than we do, especially when caring for older people is involved.
You didn’t mention kids – but that used to add about a million small chores to our lives each day. We didn’t and don’t outsource our child care (as in we never ever leave our kid alone with any maid or driver), but we do take help from the maids when one of us is at home – my son is being fed a nice omelet while Mrs. Neo runs at the Sunfeast Bangalore 10K, and Daddy is busy writing a reply to some of his favorite people in the world – his readers!
So far, we’ve been lucky to get good maids. Actually, who are we kidding – we overpay them hugely, our maids love us, and our neighbors hate us for inflating everyone elses expectations. But lets be fair – these truly poor, hard-working, often domestically abused maids deserve to be a part of the growing Indian economy too!
Your point about longer working hours is right – but we work longer hours in India not out of necessity, but out of a genuine love for what we do (I know, it sounds corny but its really true!). We see our ability to work longer hours as an added (and even competitive) advantage – we can work a little longer, hit the gym and then come home knowing that a freshly cleaned house and a home-cooked meal awaits us.
Finally, and this is a luxury – we love to entertain at home, and it’s nice to enjoy sumptuous Indian meals with our friends without us having to slog for it.
-Neo
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May 30th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
Hey my gujju lady cooks better than my tamil lady used to cook in Blore and nearly equal to my mom’s bengali cook lol(less oil, less spices – healthy the way i like it!) – and with much less drama too! A lot of people all over the world are passionate about work, that doesnt mean some HAVE TO(which is what happpens sometimes in IT India in delivery specially) work 10-12 hrs every day for a week, you can be passionate and deliver hi-quality projects and campaigns working 8 hrs or less too. If you personally love working 10-12 hrs a day good for you. My point was that my personal experience living and working both in the US and India didnt bear out the time-saved-in-India thing,usually most things took me longer, in fact they still do when i visit india every year. However as you say your personal experience is different from mine and I hope when I move back to India I too have the same lucky experience as you!
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June 1st, 2009 at 1:04 am
@Annie
Great points again. Both my wife and I are working in “product” companies – so maybe we’re comparing different things. Since both of us are in management, we tend to actually make it our responsibility to ensure that our employees are working at a sustainable place, even if sometimes we are at odds with the upper management.
I totally agree with you about the Indian IT services companies overworking their employees. When they come to us for interviews, I can see that most of them are burnt out and/or totally dejected.
Are you moving back to India soon ? If so, I’m sure that with a pragmatic outlook like yours, things will be better for you.
-Neo
June 4th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
hey i typed in a comment but seems to have dissappeared! heh heh nice try but bad excuses NEO – me and spouse both work for product companies, management for me, upper management for spouse, both of us work with our marketing/sales counterparts in India, they seem to work much longer hours than in the US, moving to india has many advantages, saving time is not one of them.
May 31st, 2009 at 5:44 am
Neo:
When I lived in India, I never employed a servant although I grew up in a household with several. Main reasons? Privacy and safety. Indians are naturally nosey which I intensely dislike. Also Indian servants do not understand boundaries and as Annie points out, their way of working isn’t the most efficient or reliable. However I have had housekeepers in the UK for the last several years and I manage them more as employees, so their presence and their deliverables are clearly defined and limited. And being Europeans they neither like prying not tolerate being questioned too much. Works for me.
So what price privacy and safety?
I do think there is rather a lot to do in India – dust means more cleaning; although machines are now appearing, lack of automation means more dishwashing and clothes washing etc; and a steady stream of surprise visitors, although now not so common as it was about 10 years or so ago, keeps one on one’s feet. I spend no more than 1-hour doing housework every day and my housekeeper does 3-4 hours a week (I rarely eat out, I entertain regularly and my house is spotless). So I am not sure about that 40 hour saving of time. :-/
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May 31st, 2009 at 10:00 pm
I agree with Annie’s comments. Having lived in both India and the US, I think there are a lot more things to do in India, which you don’t have to worry about in the US. And Neo, you must be lucky to have found good domestic help. Despite paying above what others were paying, I always had issues like maids not showing up, or being extremely inefficient, or just leaving. It takes a lot of effort to manage the help in India, which takes away from some of the usefulness of having them around in the first place.
June 2nd, 2009 at 1:26 pm
totally agree with Annie and Shefaly!
In addition, in general when I see parents in India, I only see them with an ayah/driver tag along who does the actual playing with the kids in the park. I was the only parent who was pushing the swing for my kids..the rest stayed away from the playground as if it would reduce their social standing to do so! I even saw the ayah feeding the kid while mom talked on the cell phone. I pity them all!!
In addition, having talked to my friends and relative in India, I was the object of envy that I could take off on days when my child was sick or I just decided that I wanted to work from home. The understanding that I have with my boss on these matters (as long as I complete my projects within the deadline which I definitely do) is something unheard of in Kolkata, Hyderabad and Bangalore (talking from personal observation; can’t generalize to other parts of India).
So, on these aspects, 40 hrs definitely doesn’t cut it!
June 4th, 2009 at 3:10 am
@Roshni If you see a dude with unkempt hair in khaki shorts pushing the swing, and being “checked out” by all the “social moms”, come and say hi – you’ve found me.
May 31st, 2009 at 2:44 am
neo:
assuming that one has figured out his/her number, would he/she be better off keeping it in buckaroos or in rupiahs? i wonder what proportion of the non-h1 returnees (i.e., us citizens and green card holders) have cashed in their dollars. i, for one, think that the conversion rate has peaked (for the short term for sure) when it was $52 or so before the elections. either way, would you put up a link, if you’ve seen one?
- s.b.
p.s.: i think i’ve figured out a business model. create an rnrinumber site similar to ing’s!
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June 1st, 2009 at 12:58 am
The short answer is – I think it makes sense to keep money in the country where it will be used – so, kids college fund in the US, Indian retirement money in India etc.
Long answer: Its more complicated than that, I wrote out a comment but it was getting so long I think I’ll do a post on this later this week.
Thanks for the excellent question. You must be close to r2i if you’re thinking of money transfer. If so, good luck!
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June 1st, 2009 at 1:13 am
@suj, @shefaly
More than being lucky I think we learned our lessons fairly quickly after going through the “maid hell” you’ve described. We do the following:
1. Only hire maids through strong references. Both our maids have histories of working at one place for more than 5-6 years, and give 1 months notice before leaving.
2. Maybe it’s the recession, but there seem to be quite a lot of maids looking for work these days. That sort of keeps our maids on their toes. Might not last forever.
3. We’ve built in some redundancy and overlap in the schedules, so holidays dont bring our household to it’s knees.
Finally, on the 40 hours thing – I actually agree about life being simpler in the US when you’re single or without kids. But after the kids arrived, our equation just changed dramatically.
Maybe my wife and I are just slow/terrible cooks, or our son is “high maintenance”
. But there’s no way we could even make 3 meals for our child in just 1 hour a day, leave aside all the other stuff.
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June 1st, 2009 at 9:19 am
Neo,
How is your son adjusting to India? You should refer Annie to your older post ‘Will moving to India make me happy?”..entitled something like that..
-M
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June 1st, 2009 at 10:00 am
Hi Mallika,
He’s adjusted a lot better than we have! Today he was busy training the maid to make sure she kept his books in the bookshelf sorted in ascending order by size – I wonder where he gets his obsessive compulsive disorder from.
Is this the post you’re referring to ? Well I guess Annie fits the requirements – since she seems to be generally happy in the US, she will probably be happy after she returns as well (as long as she stays away from the Tamil cooks
)
-Neo
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June 1st, 2009 at 11:56 am
Yup this is the post I was talking about. Given the time of your response, it seems like you “work” by day and blog by night!
Household help ,esp. help that is paid for and not “related to”..if you know what I mean, is definitely a plus when you have kids. I’d rather have someone take on all my other chores here in the US while I spend more time with my kids. Our cleaners who come by once a week ;precut veggies and other convenience meals from Trader Joe’s have somewhat helped:)
-M
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June 1st, 2009 at 11:46 am
Hey Neo.. Love those shoes on Chopra.. the only thing I’ve liked about him thus far.. He once almost got me laid.. but found later she was looking for rent money.
Still a work day.. Quick note:
The “Indian Guys”’s “strip dance” blog you link to.. funny shit.. He should have included a blurb on cock blocking in his rules of engagement.. major issue with Indian dudes..
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June 1st, 2009 at 11:50 am
I have a serious question! I don’t care how much money I need to save before coming to India but I am really really concerned about this one.
“Is Deepak Chopra wearing a Red shoe in this picture? A Red Shoe? A Red Shoe? or did you photoshop it?
And what do you mean by Converting it into Money and Meaning? You mean there is a Money with Meaning?
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June 1st, 2009 at 10:07 pm
Dinesh
I shall have you know that Tod’s have a rather fetching Ferrari red shoes that many men wear. The man maketh the shoe etc.
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June 1st, 2009 at 12:17 pm
I will move once I can afford this:
http://www.mumbai-estate.com/Real-Estate-Property-In-India/Residential-Bungalow/location-BeachCandy_Mumbai/For-Sale/area-4000SqFt/5BHK/RS47028.html
or this:
http://www.99acres.com/Independent-House/Villa-in-Walkeshwar-Mumbai%20South-4-Bedroom-bhk-for-Sale-spid-A2075454&pos=2
because anything less means loser NRI.
On a more serious note, living in India or US is starting to lose any meaning. Distance is not an issue anymore, there is an upper crust that lives/works/travels around the World without any concern. Try to get there.
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June 1st, 2009 at 1:23 pm
LOL. I think you just called me a loser.
But your last point is very insightful. Yes, that’s really the “dream combination”, isn’t it ?
PS: If you’re in the “upper crust”, or close, Mr. “Deep Dish” Neo would love to share his PayPal account with you. You know, just for the odds and ends that you just don’t know what to do with.
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June 1st, 2009 at 4:53 pm
Now…now…an up and coming Executive like you should not settle for a paypal handout. I am not ‘upper crust’ but if you happen to run into one, make them your Client, whatever you are selling, that is the way to make real money.
Finally, I can’t get to ‘upper crust’ if I were to paypal my ‘odds and ends’ to anyone with a blog, now would I?
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June 1st, 2009 at 1:33 pm
You are right buddy.. travel to India or the US has no meaning… easily done… at my pay.. traveling is the only thing I can do.. don’t think I can afford anything more than a hut in the shanty parts of Bombay or Bangalore.
Funny how I move to the US to make money so I can afford a decent vacation house/flat back in the old country.. and then they go and make things back home as expensive.. if not more than here.. and soon there’s a housing bubble here too.. I can’t afford either now.
Maybe we should start a loser NRI club and a timeshare in Bangalore/Bombay for us poor NRI’s that can’t afford gated communities and full time maid and chauffeurs..
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June 1st, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Some smart person will start a Summer in India for NRI kids and Summer in USA for ex-pat kids. Because, both want their kids to have Indian and American experiences. If you become that person, you may join the ranks of successful NRIs.
NRIs is no longer meaningful, the term Global Indian makes more sense.
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June 1st, 2009 at 8:08 pm
That my friend is a brilliant idea.. throw in a math camp, some science classes.. cross cultural mishmash and you should have those formerly know as NRI’s beating a path to your door..
June 1st, 2009 at 12:28 pm
It is a difficult comparison – and here I am not yet considering kids to factor into the equation…lucky indeed is the household in India that has reliable help – be it maids, drivers or child care providers…
I notice the lifestyles of friends and family when I am on vacations – in most cases, the absence of maids throws the day’s plans for a loop – don’t even suggest to a finicky housewife like my mom that the dusting can wait for a day or two!!! The other side of the coin is the gated communities where kids are always seen with the maids/babysitters as parents work long hours in IT.
The commute in B’lore (as I go there the most) is hellish – I like the convenience of knowing fairly exactly how much time I will spend in travel like here in the U.S. – and what is with the ritual of going/calling 2-3 times and coming up empty handed when something is promised for delivery??!!! No business here would survive such missed/nonexistent deadlines…..Though I hear it is improving quite a bit now in Indian metros, I must confess customer service is one of the big pluses for me here in the U.S.
And don’t even start with mentioning family as a reason for r2i…that can cut both ways with the best of families – ask any woman who has to deal with her family and her in-laws
….there is a lot of love, fun and support but there is also the politics, lack of privacy, and “this is the way it has to always be done”….not always enjoyable, no?
My long winded point being – yes, money like IT people have and the ability to hire help, helps – but there are so many other time sucks for a dual income family in India that takes time away from children and other hobbies/pursuits.
IMHO, anyone moving to India specially after a long stay in the U.S. has to mainly prepare mentally – inefficiency, corruption, things get done IST, chalta hai attitude is everywhere….money is just the deal sweetner – giving one a little more control over only certain things in India. If you can adjust well to whatever comes at you and you are lucky enough to have IT level money earning potential or have inherited wealth, India is a great place to be!
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June 1st, 2009 at 1:38 pm
I could tell you some horror stories about those “gated community” double-income families where the kids are left with the maids, but I have a feeling you already have an idea.
Also, without contradicting anything you say, let me say this – beware of drawing too many conclusions from the way your “friends and family” do things in India.
Just one small example: Most of my relatives are still struggling with their cable provider, poor/grainy pictures, poor customer service etc. In 2 weeks after I returned to India, I figured out that only Tata Sky has their act together. 100% digital quality, awesome customer service (they replaced a defective box in 24 hours even though I broke the box). They show up on time for appointments, transparent pricing, online payments – I would give them a 9/10, as opposed to 4/10 for Dish Network in the US.
Tata Sky is just Rs. 50-100 more expensive than Cable. Isn’t it a no-brainer? Not for my “friends and family”. They keep whining and using Cable TV.
Ditto for some of my other favorite Indian brands: LG (home appliances), Airtel (for Internet too), Reliance(Blackberry), Landmark (books), Dominos (Pizza), Most BJN-owned restaurants, …
I know the wider point you make about life in India is absolutely true, but I’m just saying that many of us who’ve returned to India after a long US stint approach India “differently” than long-term residents.
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June 1st, 2009 at 6:49 pm
In a sense that was my point – long time residents of the U.S tend to look more at the value and time spent for the money paid – hence the acceptance of higher fees for better service, also we are less willing to accept status quo thinking that is still a large part of methods, mind set and services provided in India…..hence the necessity of mental preparation
….and you are SO right about the whining friends and family!!!!
good info about the companies/services in India that are competitive and I concur with the comments about aspiring to be a “global indian”….for the impatient like me, I just wish the good things about the rest of the globe would find their way more quickly to India – preferably the process being started and nurtured by all Indians themselves!
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June 1st, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Neo.. the answer to your question is… (drum rolls) a Quadrillion….. in small unmarked bills or in a numbered Swiss account, so neither the US or the Indian govts can get their damp clammy hands on… he! he!
Now that’s out of the way.. dude have you noticed how time slows down in India and you seem to be always hungry and always be waiting for it to be lunch hour or tea time or dinner time… always waiting.. and waiting.. and then you like over eat with a vengeance.
Time flies in the US.. I’m constantly surprised by lunch hour.. it jumps on you suddenly or sneaks by completely.. and you have to run down to the cafeteria scraps before they close lunch and all they have are the crappy dried out sandwiches in the vending m/c.
In India.. time seemed to stretch on forever… I’d wait 5 hours for it to turn 12 so we could all go have lunch.. and then wait long hours in eager anticipation for tea.. dinner was another wait to eternity.. I am constantly hungry there.. not so much in the US.. what gives?
I neither had maids in India or in the US.. so I don’t really know what it means to have one at your beck and call.. my sibling in India does.. and we stay with that sibling, so we experience maid and chauffeur service vicariously.. but I still have to bribe the help to get food and go places..
PS: I feel brain dead.. missed lunch.. can’t focus….
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June 4th, 2009 at 3:22 am
LOL – I think there are two kinds of people in India:
1. The sort who think that a “communal lunch”, with everyone eating from everyone else’s lunch boxes is a good thing.
2. Those who can’t stand the sight (and smell) of that much food in one square meter.
So now I’m in this bizarre position of walking to my car in the lunch break, getting the safely hidden lunch box, finding a secluded area, eating my lunch in private (yes, with my NPR podcasts), and then coming back to work, acting as if I “ate out”.
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June 4th, 2009 at 6:57 am
“communal lunch” you say?… haven’t done that since middle school..
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Now sadly, I could never understand people who brought lunch from home.. In India, I’d always treated lunch hour as the golden hour of exploration… the time to hang with like minded folk.. to hop on a bike to the far end of town and experience the delights of a fantastical and taboo and whispered foods… and the occasional beer while at it.
Ahhh… to be single and eat what you want.. the untold sacrifices we make for our wives.
So does the “dear Mrs. Neo” or the “suspiciously good-looking maid” pack lunch? And does it explain why your won’t share?
PS: I noticed.. the (new) click to edit button/feature.. for someone prone to shooting from the hip with all the grammatical and spelling mistakes that entail…. I need a permanent edit button..
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June 4th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Really enjoy reading your blog. my husband and I have these plans of ‘what we’d do’ when ‘we move to India’ etc..etc…surely, money factor comes in and I guess the challenge is more for us now than ever before when family support extended beyond emotions.
Your take on moving back and the experiences thus far and that too from third person are interesting..wonder what would Mrs. Neo have to say on some of them.
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July 11th, 2009 at 3:30 am
Okay long story short. I’m Canadian born and raised – met my fob lover in the US – now we’re kinda engaged – and now he wants to only stay in india. I’m horrified. The lack of toilet paper – public amenities ( i have to dehyrdate myself whenever we go anywhere so i don’t have to pee in a bush) and what not. Also, I’m not done university yet and I’ll have a huge student loan at the end of the year. If I stayed in Canada, I would be able to live comfortable while making monthly payments. In India, my profession has no value. I’ll barely be making the equivalent of $1000 dollars per month. That’s not gonna cut it. And India isn’t cheap anymore. If you want a decent non-designer sari – u have to cough up at least 6000 rupees. I just don’t get it. And I refuse to drive where nobody obeys any rules or laws. Is my almost not there asthma gonna get violent ?I know that this might not be enough information but I don’t know what else to say. I love my fob but we’re now having problems because he thinks I won’t follow through on my committment to him, and all I want from him is to just understand that in order for me to drop everything and move there for him – he needs to be the best damn fiancee in the world! Sorry – i Know this isn’t a relationship advice column but I’m kinda glad I stumbled upon it – it’s nice to hear some good things about India too. So – can anyone help me out a bit ? PLEASSE!!
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July 11th, 2009 at 4:01 am
Hi Tina,
Lets just say that moving to India is very hard even for those people who dream of moving to India all their life.
Also reading through your comment makes me think you already know your answer in your heart.
-Neo
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November 1st, 2009 at 10:03 pm
I read with a great deal of interest the above posts about the battles one constantly faces in a bid to return home. In all of us, there is a tiny voice that nudges us to return someday, that is my belief…We had a very comfortable ( and I can claim now, almost stressfree) existence in India. Money was not great, but not bad either! Childcare was easy, the flexibility in some ways was superb. While I agree with all everyone says about corruption and inefficiency eroding the Indian way of life, I guess much more of the reluctance to return is due to habit that one falls into..I hope I will muster enough courage to return soon!
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December 28th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
Fantastic blog. But I guess your comparison and effort savings applies only if you are an entrepreneur maybe?
Otherwise, in a city like Mumbai – believe me you are LUCKY if you get to leave for work by 6:30 am and reach home by 9 pm(IT indutsry). Plus the fact that the crushing crowds sap your energy by the time you reach office/reach home. All that a human would want to do is eat his food and go to sleep. No matter who cooked it and how much effort was saved. Of course this becomes worse if your project is a wee bit in trouble. The work ‘ethic’ expects submissiveness and conformance for the sake of ‘team spirit’. I mean I see Americal employees putting in overtime – but I also see the gratitude that they receive and the fact that it is NEVER taken for granted. So which time is saved. I am sure I would have had to “plan” this comment as one of my weekend tasks had I been in Mumbai right now. So what gym, what quality time with children?
Secondly, I might pay 1/4 or maybe 1/3 of my TAKE-HOME salary towards my monthly rent in the US. I am guaranteed a good public education for free. I can buy a used car in about 3 months of salary. In India, that would be more than a years salary for a car. And more than half of my take home salary for my apartment EMI for a decent house. So I do not get the logic of purchasing power either.
Are you talking about very high management level positions in India which allow you to afford a home, school which is 10 minutes away from the commercial hub? Of course that makes life easy anywhere. Not just in India. The only challenges then left are which you choose to take up, not the daily ones that are thrust upon you.
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