Weekend Vedic warriors defend the caste system
by neo
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Neo calls them “Weekend Vedic Warriors”. During the week, these warriors are just like Neo and you, enjoying all the benefits of liberty, capitalism – and freedom from the religion of the next-door nutcase.
But on weekends, these otherwise normal men (yes they are always men) suddenly turn into fearless Vedic warriors – defending Hinduism (and even the caste system) from criticism, and writing “for the preservation of Indian culture”.
Lately Neo has seen a fresh batch of blog posts from them that claim to defend the Hindu caste system. Some of the warriors’ rants have even made it to the editorial pages of major newspapers! (Neo has a policy of never linking to scumbags – so you have to Google for them if you really want to find them.)
The claims of each new generation of these “caste system defenders” are always the same (you’d think they would do their homework during weekdays, read the rebuttals given to the previous generation and come up with new points).
They claim: The caste system was never intended to be hereditary and/or discriminatory. It was designed to solve real problems in society.
Reality: Here’s a question for the weekend Vedic warriors to write about in their next blog post – What precise modern-day problem does the caste system solve ? What is the burning problem that the caste system is the solution to ? (Hint: none)
The whole world, with its complex economy, thousands of professions and billions of people is running fine without a caste system. If we don’t need a caste system now, why did we need it specifically for India, when even India was much simpler than it is now?
If you still think we need a caste system today – well, write one, dear scholars! Lets pass “Caste System Version 2.0″ through Parliament (ignore the millions of people who will protest – what do they know about the beauties of the caste system). In fact – lets start a company and sell your brilliant intellectual property to other countries so that they too can benefit! Yes we can!
They claim: Although the idea behind the caste system was sound (and/or even beneficial), the implementation was flawed.
Reality: Here’s a blindingly obvious newsflash: it failed. It is hard to think of other things that have failed as spectacularly as the caste system – it ranks right up there with communism in the Top 10 list of “Really Bad Ideas”.
Sorry, but ideas are not judged by your subjective opinion of the elegance of a document – ideas are judged by history. Thus, the US Constitution is a success, and North Korean “democracy” is, just like the caste system, well, how can Neo put it gently – a spectacular and tragic failure.
But here is the more interesting question (for you) – If the original creation of the caste system was so perfect – why did it fail ?
If you are claiming a Vedic or divine origin for the caste system – you need to explain – why didn’t the sages/Gods just make it foolproof ? Were they unable to see just a few thousand years into the future and realize that, thanks to their perfect document, children would be born into the “sewage cleaning” caste ?
They claim: Why do people insist on hurting Hindu sentiments by constantly criticizing Hinduism by bringing up the caste system, dowry etc.?
Reality: Here’s an example of a sentiment argument that should be very familiar to weekend Vedic warriors (because they make it all the time): “Ayodhya is linked at a deep emotional level to the birthplace of Rama, and that sentiment needs to be respected at any cost” - i.e., the sentiment of large groups of people trumps practicality, history and ground reality.
Well, dear warriors – the term “caste system” is linked at a deep emotional level to the terrible hereditary caste system that exists today. So by trying to defend the caste system, you are hurting the sentiments of millions.
So now are we doing the sentiment thing or not ? Or are you exerting a monopolistic claim to sentiment ?
They claim: Those who talk about the evils of the caste system were/are out to destroy Hinduism – e.g. the British, the Communists or other “anti-Hindus”. That is why they are so happy when criticizing flaws in Hinduism (like the caste system, sati, dowry, …). They have a conversion agenda and are biased.
Reality: Yes, Neo forgot. You have no agenda in trying to prove that everything about Hinduism was just perfect. You are unbiased scholars who have realized that any minor problems are just because of flawed implementation. You want us to pay no attention to the details and look at the big beautiful picture.
Sorry – but isn’t this whole exercise in defending the caste system just a part of an agenda of denial, and an agenda in wanting to feel good about one’s own religion ?
Neo respects your right to want to feel good, but at what cost ?
In 13 countries around the world (including Germany), it is illegal to deny the holocaust. Perhaps a case can be made for banning denying the evils of the caste system. But as a staunch defender of free speech, Neo is not in favor of banning anything.
Here’s a better idea – feel free to regularly post your theories about the beauties of the original design of the caste system. Neo will just marvel (with all (fake) due respect) at your cold heartlessness and sheer stupidity.
No related posts.
Pretty freaking hilarious! Man you are awesome… to bring out the funny in the not funny.
I thought I was the only one who was freaked out by these creeps.. good to see another sensible (east) Indian.
You may one day want to mention that, dis-enfranchising 25% of the population for being “low born”, from society and every day economics on the basis of caste is not a very smart idea.
Who ever thinks the Caste system is still a mighty fine thing needs to have his/her head examined. It’s the single one reason India was relegated to such a miserable economic state. You need possible individual contributing to the bottom line.. and paying taxes. The caste system is a wonderful system of not achieving just that.
Forcing a full quarter of your population to the outer margins of the society is a sure fire way of remaining a economically backward country forever. Can you say 3rd world?
I won’t even touch on human rights violation issues..”Weekend Vedic warriors” have no clue what that means.. unless they feel discriminated against for being brown…. if a white person so much as scowls at them.. they’ll cry discrimination and write letter, I know.. I work with such a bunch.
I came across another blog.. by admittedly a white (sic!) women who was defending her brown husbands and inlaws caste prejudices. She has regurgitated in essence verbatim from the hinduvata websites to link to.
Made me puke.. some twisted world we live in.
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im american 1st off…caste doesnt exist in modern society? really?
poor..rich…working class…upper class..middle class…white …black..asian.. etc. etc.
i hate self hating hindus or indians…wake up …western liberalism is a joke as well as western conservatism…stop emulating the worst of the west!!
parents …children …etc. etc. the list of caste designations go on…alpha males ..on and on…read a book !!! then speak on matters!
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I think the Caste system started sucking the day it became rigid . From what I have read , in the good old days , caste was rather like an adjective , today it has become a noun . It was the name for your profession , and it could be changed . In modern day India , caste system has absolutely no use . May be one use , to decide the sur names ;) . But apart from that , it has done us no good .
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I beg to differ.. it was a bad idea from the day it came together… period!
If we follow your logic.. we could explain slavery, the KKK or Nazism as darn good ideas gone bad.. betcha there is tons of literature from those times explaining the “good” in them… but the truth is they were evil systems of control so the ones in power could stay in power and wealth at the expense of everyone else.
It was a system that came about because few wanted to control many and wanted to remain in power and wealth in perpetuity. It still is such a system..
There are parallels else where in the world too.. the feudal systems in Europe for one.
The key differentiators between those and the one we are stuck with.. are that the Indian/Hindu system was codified in religion and the sheer time that it was allowed to survive.
Lets face it.. our gods and goddesses are a bunch of racist bigots.. these are the idiots we idolize and worship.. to explain human rights or woman’s rights to ardent believers is going to be really really hard..
Every other such system experienced internal revolts and changes – The french revolution, the october revolution, the American revolution (debatable) and Civil war (debatable)…. unfortunately the Indian/Hindu Caste system did not.. there were some lame protests.. but that was that.
Because so many pussy foot around it.. I take the opposite and a very dim/stark view of it… I’m not religious.. I didn’t invent it.. so to hell with having to analogize for and sugar coat it… it was evil and repugnant from the day it came together about time folks in India call it just that and be done with it.
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Easily Amused:
You say: “If we follow your logic.. we could explain slavery, the KKK or Nazism as darn good ideas gone bad.. betcha there is tons of literature from those times explaining the “good” in them…”
It may not surprise you but yes, some academics (at the NBER no less) have had a go at explaining the virtues of the KKK. I blogged about it (http://tinyurl.com/87saj8) and asked the obvious next question – when will be Al Qaeda’s turn to be celebrated as the exemplar with the same virtues? As they say, time wounds all heels and sometimes it heals all wounds.
Indeed, Hitler came to power using the flaws of democracy. In 1933 elections he polled 37% of popular vote and then made deals, legitimised with the fancy name of ‘coalitions’, to become Chancellor. Democracy in this form continues to exist in the world’s largest and/ or best-known democracies.
I am not disagreeing with your views on the caste system. Just adding that many institutions and established and accepted practices legitimise things that are clearly not useful and definitely wasteful. If we must do something, then we must challenge – or mock – the works that seek to confer legitimacy on clearly abhorrent institutions/ practices even if those works are carried out by NBER people.
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I read your posts couple of mins ago.. you make your point very succinctly.. great post.. to be honest I had not heard of the NBER before.
In my post I was alluding to literature works and propaganda from their heydays.. am pretty shocked to see academia churning out this non sense now.. you live and learn.. eh?
Thanks for pointing it out. will keep an eye on your blog.. ;-)
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@Easily Amused
You say as if thousands of years ago , some wise Hindu men and women had a meeting , in which they decided to introduce the caste system . Come on . It was just a division of labour , another name for what your profession . Now , it is of no use , except to politicans .
And how does my logic say that Slavery is good or Nazism is good ?
The caste system was not rigid . It became rigid later . Nazism and Slavery were bad ideas since the begining . Casteism was not even introduced as an idea . We gave it a name and a form years after it took shape and became a part of the system .
And once again, the present form of Casteism sucks, hard !
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Warning: acerbic and foul stuff ahead. Please stop reading if you have a soft stomach.
@Neo : Dude.. I’m taking up too much of your comment space.. I’ll dial down.. from after this post
@Kislay Chandra
Dude.. Let me say this, because no one else will…. you are a racist and a despicable person.
Anyone who agrees to an arbitrary classification of humans that lends to discrimination.. based on gender, color, religion, sexual preferences or profession or any such made up criteria is a low life.. you may not agree.. but I think you are a slimy slug.
The caste system was discriminatory from the get go.. rigid or not.. actually there is considerable evidence that it evolved along ethnic lines.. if you are blind to that and argue that it has purely professional – fraternal origins.. I have news for you dear.. you are a dumb fuck.
You wrote:
“Come on . It was just a division of labor , another name for what your profession . Now , it is of no use , except to politicians .”
It’s people like you that minimize and sanctitize an abhorrent system that have kept it going.. the ones who come out right and proclaim their love for it are easily identified as monsters, but your kind will doggedly follow and keep such systems going. You’ll engage in your war of minimization to wear people down.. much like those that deny the holocaust today. After all if you say it enough times.. someone’s bound to believe you. There are enough dumb fucks around.. keep the fire burning!
You said:
“You say as if thousands of years ago , some wise Hindu men and women had a meeting , in which they decided to introduce the caste system”
and
“The caste system was not rigid . It became rigid later . ”
First off.. they were not wise.. they were people just like you and me.. and everyone else. bunch of power hungry money grabbing ass jockeys. Men have always been that.. hungry for power, pussy and money.
And since you have such difficulty grasping simple concepts.. let me infantilize and elaborate the slavery example:
Slavery did not come about because some *people* got together and decided it was a nifty idea to buy and sell humans.. it fell together as a result of war (spoils of war) and lending practices (pretty cool if you could sell your sister, you could buy her back when the crops are harvested, after all cash is king!). Pretty soon the system evolved to full fledged slavery and laws were put in place to protect the rights of slave owners… screw the slaves!
You see the very origins of slavery were terrible(ideas).. it devastated a continent and that continent never recovered completely. It had such deep consequences that it will forever be associated be negative stereotyping and the resultant consequences.
The caste system in India/hinduism was not the result of “wise hindu men and women” getting together to form one, at least I’m pretty sure women were also treated like shit back then.. cook, clean and spread your leg.
It came about as a result of war, subjugation and forceful containment. It was already abhorrent when the first person used a caste name to describe another.. it formed the basis for the mess we have today.
It is the same thing as calling a person of latin origin a wetback or some one of east indian origin a macaca. You have to nip such things in the bud.. not codify into religion.
But I guess you’re one of those racist types who’ll never understand why it was (still is) horrible to call a black person a nigger.. after all it was/is a nifty name to describe black negros eh?
Only now has it become a rigid derogatory epithet.
For defending the caste system ( in any form ).. you are a pretty disgusting person.
PS: Ask me how the caste system impacts taxation and why Indian tax revenue is measly.
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Who the hell do you think you are , calling me a slimy slug , a racist and a despicable person ? You don’t have even have the civility to engage in a debate without resounding to name calling . Go to hell . You do not know anything about me , and yet you labeled what not . I am not a proponent of the Caste system , I hate it , cause I have seen what it does to people . And yes , I will stick to what I said , it became evil when it became rigid . Please refrain from commenting on my comments on this blog . I do not wish to engage in a debate if you are going to abuse me .
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@Easily Amused
You “assumed” all the things you said about me , called me a dumb fuck , and what not , just because I disagreed with you . And I did not even say that the Caste-system is good , I say it is bad , very very bad ; and yet you chose to blast me away . I said what I said , based on what I have seen,heard and read . I am not a Ph.D. in Sociology and I could be wrong . But that does not give you the right to dismiss me as a racist and “dumb fuck” . Pardon me for saying this , but you are the one who came off as a very disgusting person , to me. I blog as well , and of all the posts I have ever written , I never mentioned that what a wonderful gift the caste system was to India . Seriously , how petulant of you !
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I really don’t understand as to why people are figting over these issues in these days?
First and foremost the word caste system is the creation of the British. The word for the social system has nothing to do with castes.
People were assigned jobs according to their mental capacity and that’s about it.
Say if your mental capacity and the ability to grasp basic fundamentals of a system is 0 on a scale of 0-10 then probably you would be classified as a Shudra and then given work accordingly.
If your mental capacity on a scale of 0-10 was 10 then you would be assigned the work of a Brahmin, which by the way needs a lot of brains.
This system was not rigid but flexible. So even if you were born to a father who was a Shudra, if your mental capability was good enough you would be assigned your duties accordingly.
As far as the rigid caste system is concerned, I have not found the refernce to it in any of the books written by travellers to India. Right from the time of the Greeks to Al Beruni or, Sirindi or even Ibn Battuta.
Ofcourse if you would rather subscribe to the historical version of the Missionaries which propounds the now defunct Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT) then it you can say whatever comes to your heart.
Just that facts are not on your side.
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Please stop referring to it as Hindu Caste System. It’s a social phenomenon in India – same as Sati and Dowry. Hindus in East Asia, the West don’t practice these, Indian Hindus can’t claim their brand of Hinduism as more authoritative than others. My Christian friend couldn’t (i.e. due to parental opposition) get married to his Christian girl because she was of different caste. “Hinduism” didn’t even exist back when it is claimed the caste system originated.
I also think it’s unfair that contemporary Hindus are bullied to go on the defensive whenever caste is mentioned. After all slavery is frequently mentioned in the Biblical scriptures, but we don’t think of it as a Jewish or Christian problem.
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is the author sc st? I am sure he/she would be equally vocal about defending reservations….for the so called ‘dalits’
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